Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the "damn good gals," also concluded that many of the code girls were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?
Created: 09/26/18
Replies: 11
Join Date: 10/15/10
Posts: 3442
Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the "damn good gals," also concluded that many of the code girls were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?
Join Date: 08/01/16
Posts: 70
He would not have commented on the looks of any of the men! The statement, while a compliment, may have made the women feel that they were valued more for looks than brains. If anything, the women worked harder to prove their abiolity
Join Date: 07/10/14
Posts: 72
Were they valued for their intelligence and code breaking skills or for their looks? The women may have felt that they were chosen not just for their brains and ability to do code breaking but they were also chosen based on their looks. One could imagine that some felt proud of this while others were unhappy to be judged fit for the position because of the right combination of attributes.
Join Date: 07/28/11
Posts: 422
I don't think they liked Frank's comments, but it motivated them to work harder.
Join Date: 04/21/11
Posts: 281
This type of language was so typical during that time. When was the last time you heard someone called a gal? Even prefacing it with damn pretty showed disrespect: as if women were in two classes, those with looks and those without. I do wonder if women during those years felt downgraded or just sloughed the talk off. Wish I could ask my mom!
Join Date: 06/25/13
Posts: 347
He probably would not get away with that today. Women stand up for themselves more now. At the time, this type of comment was excepted. I worked with men and I know comments were made and we felt there was nothing we could do about it. There were no women in power and no laws like there are today. I believe the women just worked harder.
Join Date: 08/01/15
Posts: 66
I believe Frank Raven's message relating to the appearance of the "girls" is one that has been used to show women's value is based on their looks. Commercials and ads have traditionally provided women with an unreal expectation of how value is assessed. It is a powerful way of devaluing women. It implies only superficial attributes and as this book shows keeping history in the hands of the powerful.
Join Date: 05/29/15
Posts: 460
It was another challenge for the women. I Think Raven was proud of them but was inappropriate in expressing it.
Join Date: 09/14/12
Posts: 111
I agree with someone else who said he would have never said that about men. It was a degrading remark considering that they were doing such backbreaking intelligent work.
Join Date: 07/02/15
Posts: 100
It’s hard to say what Raven actually meant by those words—he might even have equated brains with beauty and couldn’t express that fact any better. It comes across as sexist, but in a backhanded way, I think he was proudly complimenting all his “gals.”
Join Date: 07/28/16
Posts: 54
Frank Raven was an ambitious, and shallow person in many ways. He wanted to look the best, and be the best, and wanted the women who worked for him to look the "best" as well.
Join Date: 08/31/17
Posts: 12
I think this statement from Raven was a reflection of the times, and sadly, it may still be in effect. Beauty and intelligence are often a hard concept for people to reconcile. Often, intelligence is not associated with beauty, and for him, it may have been a shock that these exceptionally intelligent women were beautiful as well. Sexist, for sure!! But not a novel concept, unfortunately.
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