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Code Girls


The riveting story of the USA's courageous and accomplished WWII female...
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Discuss Code Girls by Liza Mundy:
Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

Created: 09/26/18

Replies: 11

Posted Sep. 26, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 1830

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Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the "damn good gals," also concluded that many of the code girls were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?


Posted Sep. 30, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
dianeh

Join Date: 08/01/16

Posts: 33

RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

He would not have commented on the looks of any of the men! The statement, while a compliment, may have made the women feel that they were valued more for looks than brains. If anything, the women worked harder to prove their abiolity


Posted Oct. 01, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
carolf

Join Date: 07/10/14

Posts: 38

RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

Were they valued for their intelligence and code breaking skills or for their looks? The women may have felt that they were chosen not just for their brains and ability to do code breaking but they were also chosen based on their looks. One could imagine that some felt proud of this while others were unhappy to be judged fit for the position because of the right combination of attributes.


Posted Oct. 02, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
terriej

Join Date: 07/28/11

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

I don't think they liked Frank's comments, but it motivated them to work harder.


Posted Oct. 02, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Suzanne

Join Date: 04/21/11

Posts: 265

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

This type of language was so typical during that time. When was the last time you heard someone called a gal? Even prefacing it with damn pretty showed disrespect: as if women were in two classes, those with looks and those without. I do wonder if women during those years felt downgraded or just sloughed the talk off. Wish I could ask my mom!


Posted Oct. 04, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
nancyh

Join Date: 06/25/13

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

He probably would not get away with that today. Women stand up for themselves more now. At the time, this type of comment was excepted. I worked with men and I know comments were made and we felt there was nothing we could do about it. There were no women in power and no laws like there are today. I believe the women just worked harder.


Posted Oct. 09, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Loveslife

Join Date: 08/01/15

Posts: 20

RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

I believe Frank Raven's message relating to the appearance of the "girls" is one that has been used to show women's value is based on their looks. Commercials and ads have traditionally provided women with an unreal expectation of how value is assessed. It is a powerful way of devaluing women. It implies only superficial attributes and as this book shows keeping history in the hands of the powerful.


Posted Oct. 10, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
dianaps

Join Date: 05/29/15

Posts: 336

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

It was another challenge for the women. I Think Raven was proud of them but was inappropriate in expressing it.


Posted Oct. 17, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
kathleenb

Join Date: 09/14/12

Posts: 82

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

I agree with someone else who said he would have never said that about men. It was a degrading remark considering that they were doing such backbreaking intelligent work.


Posted Oct. 18, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
marianned

Join Date: 07/02/15

Posts: 64

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RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

It’s hard to say what Raven actually meant by those words—he might even have equated brains with beauty and couldn’t express that fact any better. It comes across as sexist, but in a backhanded way, I think he was proudly complimenting all his “gals.”


Posted Oct. 19, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
teachlz

Join Date: 07/28/16

Posts: 36

RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were "damn pretty gals." What effect might this statement and the perspective of people like Raven have had on the women and their work?

Frank Raven was an ambitious, and shallow person in many ways. He wanted to look the best, and be the best, and wanted the women who worked for him to look the "best" as well.


Posted Oct. 21, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PattiPM

Join Date: 08/31/17

Posts: 7

RE: Frank Raven, while acknowledging the skills of the women, also concluded that many of were

I think this statement from Raven was a reflection of the times, and sadly, it may still be in effect. Beauty and intelligence are often a hard concept for people to reconcile. Often, intelligence is not associated with beauty, and for him, it may have been a shock that these exceptionally intelligent women were beautiful as well. Sexist, for sure!! But not a novel concept, unfortunately.


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