Not Logged in.
Book Jacket

The Survivors


Even the deepest secrets rise to the surface in this thrilling mystery from New ...
More about this book
Author Biography

Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

Created: 01/28/21

Replies: 15

Posted Jan. 28, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 2619

Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

The opening of Chapter 11 (page 95) describes all the ways in which Finn Elliott was "the real deal." Later, we see some examples of behavior that paint Finn in a less flattering light. However, many of these more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?


Posted Jan. 29, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
patty claire

Join Date: 04/05/19

Posts: 32

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

Of course we all know it is not right to talk ill of dead, but Finn becomes an idol who is always perfect in each story told about him. All is faults and sins are forgiven.


Posted Jan. 29, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
melissa c.

Join Date: 01/10/21

Posts: 39

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I think this shows how people often romanticize people who are no longer with us. It seemed Finn's mother was almost defensive about Finn and his questionable behavior, chalking it up to Finn being a "real guy." However, I think under the surface she knew he was flawed but wouldn't show she acknowledged his faults. I see that behavior with many mothers being protective of their sons but not their daughters. Very interesting indeed.


Posted Jan. 29, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
paulak

Join Date: 04/21/11

Posts: 187

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

Even before he died, it seems that Finn benefitted from the "boys will be boys" mentality. Thinking back to the episode where his father inquires about the girl Finn got in "the family way". I agree with Melissa that we have a tendency to overlook the flaws of people who have passed on, especially if they were very important in our lives.


Posted Jan. 30, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PKH

Join Date: 01/29/21

Posts: 34

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

Men, especially boys, have always gotten away with "bad" behavior. And after they die it never seems to be as bad as it really was in real life.


Posted Jan. 30, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
acstrine

Join Date: 02/06/17

Posts: 293

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I'm very grateful for this question because it really made me think about how Brian participated in celebrating Finn's behavior. Brian, if we all remember, had been a teacher. So this question has me ruminating on how important it is for male role models to NOT embrace this sort of conduct. If Brian could even snicker about how Finn really showed that laborer by bedding his girlfriend, how was he capable of respecting the number of girls and young women he taught? Did his attitudes affect his expectations in the classroom? Did he use their gender to discount abilities or grant fewer opportunities? It seems that men have defined what is ok and what is not. Women have just fallen in line, nodding along at the old "boys will be boys" line and tsk-tsking when young women partake in similar behavior. Men have benefitted from these views- -what motivation do they have to change their thinking? I think women need to step up, call men out, pointedly ask them if they would treat their daughters/mothers/sisters like that. We need to find allies like the Kierans in this world willing to honestly examine their own behavior and call it out in the future when it does not match their values. Creating awareness of what is wrong with certain behavior/attitudes is not enough though. We can't just say, "Oh, yes, you're right, that phrase is so outdated haha." There MUST be meaningful action to change culture. (Think gym teacher creating lessons on how high school boys should treat their female classmates at a party.) There can't be "boy behavior"or "girl behavior"--I believe we need to address what kind of behavior we expect from human beings.


Posted Feb. 05, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
susiej

Join Date: 10/15/14

Posts: 330

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

acstrine discusses this well in her response. Since the earliest of times men and women have had specific and well-defined cultural roles, and while it will take just as long to redefine those, we have begun. I agree that women need to take an active role in this by pointing out inequities as they are experienced. But men also need to be less threatened and more open to the idea that women are as capable and can be as qualified. For the past twenty years or more it seems there has been movement in a positive direction with regard to this. It is important that as younger people take more control, this does not become a lost part of their values. Hopefully, Kieran and Mia, experiencing what they have, will be able to help young Audrey understand and continue the change.


Posted Feb. 05, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
linz

Join Date: 08/12/15

Posts: 77

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I think it says more about how we remember the good , strong, fun, happy things about a person who dies. People tend to forget this was a real human with flaws and failures. And to be lost in such a dramatic, visible way, Finn became a hero, almost godlike. People thought he sacrificed himself for his brother, but that was not what he was doing.


Posted Feb. 06, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
debrav

Join Date: 08/16/11

Posts: 30

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I really like this question and agree with Acstrine and SusieJ. I would add that while many men admire the behavior and characteristics of a “Finn” there are also too many women that find that behavior acceptable and even attractive. Verity is an example because she prefers Finn over Kieran.


Posted Feb. 07, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
beverlyj

Join Date: 12/22/11

Posts: 102

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

It seems Finn had a "charismatic" personality and feed into the stereotype of what a young while male should be for his time and there was an almost "can do no wrong" aura about him, especially after the storm in which he died and that he died trying to save his brother.

So after this death, no one wanted to remember/bring up any behavior which would spoil the good that he did or represented.


Posted Feb. 07, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PiperUp

Join Date: 10/27/15

Posts: 146

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I think it has less to do with what this says about the idea of masculinity in our society & more about how it's thought of as insensitive to speak ill of the dead so often only the good is remembered.


Posted Feb. 10, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lbellg

Join Date: 02/23/14

Posts: 46

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

Such behavior is rewarded and reinforced by our society by both genders


Posted Feb. 14, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
catherynez

Join Date: 01/27/18

Posts: 64

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I agree with the above answers. I thought the community embraced how Finn behaved and celebrated him because he had passed away. I think a lot of people don’t want to speak ill of the dead and only remember the good. It does sound like he was very charismatic and a good old boy. A lot of women are attracted to bad boys and their behavior. In the last 10-20 years, our society has been less accepting of these behaviors but I don’t think it will go totally away.


Posted Feb. 15, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
cindyb

Join Date: 04/14/20

Posts: 40

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I also agree with the previous remarks. Good looks and charm in both genders allow for easier acceptance and forgiveness for bad behavior. Add to that an early and tragic death and we elevate memories of the deceased to that of a perfect person who never really existed.


Posted Feb. 23, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
TeganEmma

Join Date: 02/23/21

Posts: 5

RE: Many of Finn's more questionable behaviors are excused, or even celebrated. What do you think this says about the idea of masculinity in our society?

I think it's less about making a comment on masculinity in society and more about people's tendencies to focus on the good elements of a person and "put them on a pedestal" so to speak, after they die. People feel guilty about speaking ill of the dead and tend to focus on the happy memories, and the positive characteristics that person had, rather than dwell on or even remember the negatives. This is especially so in this instance because everyone remembers him as the great man who went out in a storm to try and rescue Kieran.


Posted Feb. 26, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
taking.mytime's Gravatar
taking.mytime

Join Date: 03/29/16

Posts: 261

RE: Many of Finn's more ...

When Finn dies he becomes a symbol - a young man in his prime with a great future ahead of him. Just having started his business Finn has really had no failures yet. He is young, he is strong, he is moving ahead. All things expected by a family and a community. To be taken out in the prime of his life leaves nothing but praise behind. His antics can be overlooked as those of a young growing boy, a teenager. A female is not as lucky - there is no equality between the two genders - even after death. A young man can be forgiven for his indiscretions, a young female is condemned for them. It has always been a masculine world and even to date that implication, that barrier, is still there.


Reply

Please login to post a response.