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The Winter Soldier


A story of war and medicine, of finding love in the sweeping tides of history, ...
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Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Created: 09/19/18

Replies: 16

Posted Sep. 19, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3058

Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

When Margarete and Lucius are relocating recovering patients to different hospitals, Margarete wants to send Horvath but Lucius wants him to stay. Why do you think they disagree about his treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time, before you became aware of the repercussions of this decision?


Posted Sep. 25, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
renem

Join Date: 12/01/16

Posts: 292

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I don't think they were disagreeing about the treatment itself, but about whom would continue the treatment and whether another doctor would get recognition for the "cure".
Because I was also part of an Army field hospital in the past, I backed Margarete's decision to allow Horvath to move on to the next hospital.


Posted Sep. 25, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lilliantpr

Join Date: 01/23/12

Posts: 42

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Both disagreed on what they should do with Horváth the moment they saw that he was better: continue the treatment there in Lemnowice, a field hospital, or relocate him to a Rehabilitation hospital.
Margarete is trying to follow the normal guides and procedures of discharging patients once they get better, also she was aware of Horváth’s desire to go “home”, so she is more focused on the patient’s best interest and based on her experience, she knew that Horváth was ready to move on.
As opposed to Lucius, who is really concentrated on his accomplishment as a doctor which was something he had never experienced before, he feels like Jesus who resurrected Lazarus. Lucius mentions that he feels a pinch of jealousy towards Margarete and an unspoken competition of who could be the one to claim this victory. He felt very proud of himself. So, I don’t think he is really thinking of what was best for the patient.
I would have to say at the moment they were discussing this disagreement, I was backing Lucius because of the extraordinary outcome of his treatment with Horváth, but immediately when Margarete mentioned that the Cossacks were near and the way she alerted him, nothing good was going to come out of their arrival. That made me change my mind as to what should be done with Horváth and agreed that Margarete was being more precautious than Lucius.


Posted Sep. 26, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
katherinep

Join Date: 07/16/14

Posts: 337

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I agree with Lilian totally, although I sided with Margarete from the outset. Not because she was any more concerned about the patient as her focus than Lucius, but because she was more politically savvy than he, if you could call it that. She knew you can't fight city hall and, if you do, there will be unbearable repercussions. And so, there were.


Posted Sep. 26, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
peggyt

Join Date: 08/10/17

Posts: 215

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

The basic difference was that she was being practical and realistic and he was not. After the outcome, we know she was right.


Posted Sep. 27, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
dorothyh

Join Date: 01/23/15

Posts: 192

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

agree with peggyt


Posted Sep. 28, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
joang

Join Date: 05/17/12

Posts: 86

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Have to agree with the others. Margarete was knowledgeable and practical. The realist. Especially when Horvath asked to go home, according to Margarete he asked for mama, home. Leaving the field hospital was appropriate at that time. Lucius was consumed with the "glory of discovery". He wanted to share it with his parents and former colleagues and friends. "And I was once just content with being a barber surgeon, a bone-cutter, a setter of broken limbs".


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
BarbaraLynn

Join Date: 06/16/18

Posts: 7

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Margarete points out to Lucius that their positions are different. Lucius is an ARMY doctor, whose job it is to heal soldiers so that they can return to battle. Lucius, however, wants to take on the role of a personal physician/researcher, being solely responsible for Horvath's treatment in hopes of discovering a cure that will bring him prestige. As lilliantpr states, Lucius's hubris is so great that he even compares himself to Jesus, raising Lazarus from the dead and worrying that he may be forced to share the spotlight credit for his "discover" with Margarete. There is no reason that Horvath's treatment couldn't and shouldn't continue at a rehabilitation hospital, therefore, I agree with Margarete.


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
pennyp

Join Date: 03/22/12

Posts: 353

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I agree with other readers. I think Margarete was being practical and trying to follow some type of protocol.


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
laurenj

Join Date: 09/29/18

Posts: 1

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I saw Lucius’ approach to treating Horvath as coming from a learning and discovery perspective/drive; he felt and anticipated further power in his ability and potential to heal Horvath. It was an egoic perspective. Margarete recognized what was most important to Horvath and thus what was most important to his further healing. And, yes, Margaret understood the potential peril with the Cossacks coming,


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
colleena

Join Date: 07/18/18

Posts: 34

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I agree that Margarete's approach was more practical and sensitive to Horvath's requests. I think Lucius concern was to have more time to study how his treatment would have benefits for Horvath and for other patients in the future.


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
kimk

Join Date: 10/16/10

Posts: 668

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Gotta admit it ticked me off that Lucius didn't listen to Margarete, who obviously had more experience with moving the soldiers in and out. I'm sure there were those she would have liked to have kept behind, too, but acted in the soldiers' best interests.


Posted Oct. 01, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PiperUp

Join Date: 10/27/15

Posts: 146

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I agreed with Lucius at the time because Horvath seemed to be responding well to the treatment. Transferring to a new hospital would be risky if he didn't arrive prior to the time for his next dose of medication or if the Dr. he ended up with at the new hospital decided to end or switch the treatment. Of course, in retrospect, Margarete was correct as she understood the risks of him remaining. I think she could've done a better job of explaining the risks to Lucius since she knew he hadn't witnessed patients being re-enlisted back to the battlefield.


Posted Oct. 14, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Carol Rainer

Join Date: 09/03/15

Posts: 89

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Lucius was opposed to "patch and send". He was of the opinion that Horvath was not a coward, but had mental problems now known to us as PTSD. He wanted to affect a cure for this "new disease of war" which would also raise him to new heights and make his family proud of him.


Posted Oct. 14, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
alwaysdaddygirl's Gravatar
alwaysdaddygirl

Join Date: 09/04/16

Posts: 110

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

Renem,

Mahalo for your service!


Posted Oct. 14, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
alwaysdaddygirl's Gravatar
alwaysdaddygirl

Join Date: 09/04/16

Posts: 110

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

I went back and re-read different parts. This was one of them. The reason is that I have PTSD ( I never clarify this before but I have complex PTSD) . I want to make sure I was not being biased.

I agree with the others about Lucius. Sadly, Horvath true treatment was never in Lucius interst. Lucius reminded me of his mom when it came to Horvath. Margarete was in the right.


Posted Oct. 14, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
marganna

Join Date: 10/14/11

Posts: 149

RE: Why do you think Margarete and Lucius disagree about Horvath's treatment? Whose argument did you back at the time?

All have said it above — I agree — however as I look back at the story - I find this a weak link in the storytelling of author. Just because of the book’s title I knew this incident was pivotal to the story. No, I do not want the author to hit me over the head with this story arc but I would have found more pleasure in a more developed line. It’s the “MOMENT” the turning point ... yet I did not find my heart invested. Why? Not sure. It’s not that it’s subtle...(name of book - new “disease”, nurse v doctor...etc) but for me it was a low investment of the moment. If it hadn’t been for the title of book I’d just have read it along with all the other atrocities of war.


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