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The Winter Soldier


A story of war and medicine, of finding love in the sweeping tides of history, ...
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What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

Created: 09/19/18

Replies: 10

Posted Sep. 19, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3058

What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Do you feel what happened to Horvath was Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Do you believe it changed Margarete, and if so, how? In what ways did you see Horvath’s fate impacting how Lucius treated other cases?


Posted Sep. 25, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
renem

Join Date: 12/01/16

Posts: 292

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

It was horrible enough to read about Horvath's torture that I don't even want to repeat it in this post. Was it Lucius's fault, yes, to some degree. Margarete thought that Lucius should have listened to her when she told him Horvath should move on to the next hospital. After the events of that awful day Margarete told Lucius to stay away from Horvath and became distant toward him. She took full responsibility of nursing Horvath back to health. Lucius realized that Margarete treated all her patients the same and he finally understood that he too must follow her example.


Posted Sep. 26, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
katherinep

Join Date: 07/16/14

Posts: 337

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

Renem, has said it very well. Lucius never forgave himself for Horvath's torture. But he learned a valuable lesson--disobey and the results may not be directed at you totally but you will suffer in some way


Posted Sep. 26, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
peggyt

Join Date: 08/10/17

Posts: 215

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

Lucius was naive and had good intentions partly but partly he wanted to see if his methods would lead to further success. In that way, he use Horvath as an experiment rather than doing what Margarete knew he should. From this, he learned to “patch and send” which was what he was supposed to do from the beginning.
Although Margarete cared for him, I think she could not forgive him completely.


Posted Sep. 29, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Carol Rainer

Join Date: 09/03/15

Posts: 89

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

When all is said and done, I suppose Lucius could be blamed for the torture of Horvath, but indirectly, because he believed that in keeping him there, he could do more good towards his cure.


Posted Oct. 02, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
josephinej

Join Date: 05/11/15

Posts: 84

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

Lucius wanted to help people, to save them, and he was fascinated by Horvath whose wounds were psychological. He was a bit arrogant in thinking that he alone could cure him, so in that sense he was responsible (although we should not forget it was the torturer who was really responsible!). I think he also wanted to prove to Margarete that he knew something she didn't.


Posted Oct. 03, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PinkLady

Join Date: 01/22/18

Posts: 140

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

There was a negative impact on his relationship with Margarete and certainly there was negative impact on all who were forced to watch and be reminded of the horrors going on around them. I really didn't believe it was Lucius's fault. Yes, there was some arrogance and yes, he wanted to see if his methods could make Horvath better, but he also knew what could happen to him elsewhere and didn't want to be a part of sending someone he knew and had helped to a life or a period of more potential torture. It taught him not to get as attached - he was there for one purpose and he needed to focus on that, not long term care.


Posted Oct. 04, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
cathyoc

Join Date: 04/26/17

Posts: 173

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

Great comments on what I believe was the pivotal scene in the novel. It certainly made Lucius a better doctor as he constantly reminded himself to do no harm. Lucius continually dwelt on his failure to one soldier despite saving hundreds or maybe thousands of other soldiers.


Posted Oct. 05, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
BarbaraLynn

Join Date: 06/16/18

Posts: 7

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

The fault lies with the torturer, Horst. If not Horvath, than Horst would have tortured someone else. If Horst wasn't "punishing" Lucius for not sending Horvath back to the front, he would have found another of Lucius's errors to punish. That said, this is a pivotal scene in the novel for Lucius, for Margarete, and for their relationship. Margarete had warned Lucius to "patch and mend" Horvath. She couldn't have anticipated the torture, but when it happens, it becomes her "I told you so" moment. Lucius, too, blames himself for Horvath's torture and is haunted by visions and nightmares. It is only when he returns to treating patients, perhaps to atone for his role in Horvath's fate, that the nightmares subside.


Posted Oct. 06, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lesleyf

Join Date: 05/14/11

Posts: 110

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

The torture of Horvath made a difference to many people there and for a long time to come. Lucius might be construed as having contributed to the torture by insisting that Horvath stay. His reasons were mostly selfish although it's true he would assume that the successful treatment might be lost if he were moved. Margarete felt that he was a little at least at fault because she knew he was a new and untested doctor (student, really) and felt his decision to keep Horvath there was cause of the torture. Whether either or both were right or wrong matters little because it happened and the effects were palpable.


Posted Oct. 11, 2018 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
scgirl

Join Date: 06/05/18

Posts: 182

RE: What were the ramifications of Horvath’s torture? Was it Lucius’s fault? How did this event impact his relationship with Margarete? Did Horvath’s fate impact how Lucius treated other cases?

I am in agreement with BarbaraLynn. Horst was responsible for the torture of Horvath. Lucius could not have known what would happend to Horvath. To him, Horvath was a sick patient and therefore not eligible to return to battle. Lucius took on the mantle of guilt after the torture happened and , to a degree, Margarete allowed him to do so by being the only one to feed and work with Horvath. This put a strain on their relationship and I think that Lucius removed himself from his other cases mentally because of the incident.


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