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All the Ugly and Wonderful Things
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Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

Created: 09/10/17

Replies: 11

Posted Sep. 10, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 1358

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Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

Wavy's consent is violated in a number of ways that are never punished – like Liam trying to force her to eat. Yet when she does (very willingly) give consent to Kellen, Kellen is punished. Did this change your view of what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"


Posted Sep. 30, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
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bestmartin

Join Date: 02/20/13

Posts: 71

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

I think this is a tricky question to answer. My views changed in regards to this relationship. I don't think I could generalize for most children. Wavy grew up so fast and was so needy of care and affection. She was the caretaker at such an early age. I think she was able to decide what was sexually acceptable for her but it was a complicated decision coming from so many different needs.


Posted Oct. 02, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
jenniferj

Join Date: 09/30/17

Posts: 20

RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

They softened in terms of the fact that it is important to take all aspects of the story into account. I was extremely disappointed in Aunt Brenda who seemed more focused on her version of justice than the best interest of Wavy. Overall, I do think children need to be protected because even teens who think they are all grown up do not realize the situation they may have put themselves in. For instance, if Wavy really was thinking as an adult and truly loved Kellen, she would have never made a physical gesture toward him, knowing it could ruin his life and land him in prison. In this instance, however, I would have been comfortable, with them marrying if past the age of parental consent and then having relations, because quite frankly this was the best situation for Wavy given the options.


Posted Oct. 02, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
ScribblingScribe

Join Date: 02/29/16

Posts: 60

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

I think it depends. There is no easy answer here. Within the context of the story, it made sense. That does not mean it would for any other child. I still believe that children are not capable of giving informed consent. I would not support it. The amazing thing about this book is that the author managed to show a story where it did. That is rare. It's what made the book stand out. The author was walking a fine line and made it look easy.


Posted Oct. 03, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
rebeccar

Join Date: 03/13/12

Posts: 310

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

In this book, of course, I wanted Wavy to have bodily sovereignty because so many of the adults in her life are a total mess emotionally and psychologically.My views did not necessarily change because I have occasionally seen television reports of some 19 year old male being charged and sentenced to a life as a registered sex offender with a 15 year old girl that looked very "worldly wise" and "experienced." When the two individuals said they had dated and been together willingly for a long time, it seemed wrong for one to have a criminal record because of black and white laws. Situations like that are different than the pedophiles that abduct little children. Kellen clearly is not a pedophile, and Way has depended on him as a source of sanity for a long time.


Posted Oct. 03, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
terriej

Join Date: 07/28/11

Posts: 142

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

This was very confusing for me. I went into the book with a solid opinion of the meaning of consent when a minor is involved. Wavy was so damaged and Kellen was her only refuge. She was mature beyond her years form a very early age. I guess my opinion now is there are mitigating circumstances that could enable a minor to give full consent.


Posted Oct. 03, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
laurap

Join Date: 06/19/12

Posts: 180

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

My views did not change, because they are context and circumstnace dependent to some extent, but I would generally not approve of a relationship between a fifteen-year-old and a 27-year-old unless there were incredibly extenuating circumstances. I think such circumstances are involved in this story -- but the relationship still made me incredibly uncomfortable.


Posted Oct. 15, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
JulieAB

Join Date: 07/16/13

Posts: 44

RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

I do not think I can really answer this in the way I want to. I can't put into words my thoughts. Before reading this book, I would have said that a teenager can't consent. But, having read this book, my thoughts get jumbled. I give this book five stars as it is the first book in a very long time that stuck with me long after reading it and continues to make me question black and white rules


Posted Oct. 15, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
mal

Join Date: 09/09/13

Posts: 155

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

My views did not change. Despite the terrible circumstances plaguing Wavy - she is still a child. Wavy's bond with Kellen was strong but nonetheless when intimacy entered it changed the dynamics greatly, a wrong no matter how damaged the participants. A child does not have the capacity to decide on such heavy matters.


Posted Oct. 18, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Peggy H

Join Date: 06/13/11

Posts: 188

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

Interesting question with today's news as a number of women who were young and vulnerable in their early twenties, yet here us Wavy at a young age wanting sex. She was vulnerable and Keller recognized this but she was also starved for family love. She was also mature from what she had lived and seen but then she was also told that touching was dirty. With her background she felt she could decide for herself. Many of us cannot see or did not experience this background. She acted as she wanted.


Pegh
Posted Oct. 19, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
pennyp

Join Date: 03/22/12

Posts: 278

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RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

My opinion changed in this case in regard to the specific situation. I don't believe children in general have the maturity to make these decisions. That being said I worked with delinquent children for years. In a few specific cases, the best corse of action was to move for emancipation. In these cases, families were shattered, foster care did not work and these young people were able to move to adulthood before 18


Posted Nov. 01, 2017 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
celiap

Join Date: 07/27/17

Posts: 32

RE: Did your views change with regard to what constitutes the nature of consent and, in the author's words, "a child's right to "bodily sovereignty?"

Yes it did. I never thought before that a 13 year old should have the ABILITY to consent. I make the exception for Wavy. I have a friend who is angry over her 18 year old wanting bodily sovereignty. The 18 year old is a foster child and my friend sees that her child is now going down the same road as the rest of her family... indiscriminate and possibly having an out of wedlock baby. I think Wavy is VERY able to discriminate. She matured faster than the average 13 year old.


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