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Ariadne


A mesmerizing debut novel about Ariadne, Princess of Crete for fans of Madeline ...
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Discuss the different experiences of motherhood we see in the novel, including Pasiphae's relationship with her children.

Created: 05/13/21

Replies: 9

Posted May. 13, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3442

Discuss the different experiences of motherhood we see in the novel, including Pasiphae's relationship with her children.

Ariadne throws herself into domestic life on Naxos and seems to love being a mother to her sons, while Phaedra has a much more difficult time with childbirth and raising her children. Discuss the different experiences of motherhood we see in the novel, including Pasiphae's relationship with her children.


Posted May. 13, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
danielh

Join Date: 04/14/11

Posts: 9

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Ariadne: conventional, traditional, "maternal"
Phaedra: functional, distant,
Pasiphae: quixotic, poetic, playful; later, driven to insanity


Posted May. 14, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
RuthEh

Join Date: 07/31/17

Posts: 67

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Ariadne is very motherly and so enjoys her children. She delighted in having many other children to love. She helped her Mother with the Minotaur, even when he repulsed her.

Phaedra couldn't even think of a name for her first son. She didn't care, the baby was fussy and felt the rejection of her. She states she felt wrong-footed, clumsy and intensely alone, cold-hearted.


Posted May. 15, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
JLPen77

Join Date: 02/05/16

Posts: 381

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Their different experiences of motherhood reflect, to my mind, the impact that trauma has upon a parent’s ability to nurture and respond to the needs of one’s children. Ariadne’s mostly happy marriage and her sense of security when she gave birth gave her the freedom to be fully engaged and open-hearted. Her early childhood experience of her own mother, before Pasiphae was driven mad, gave her a model for mothering, too. But her sister was too young to have had that experience; once Pasiphae lost herself to the madness that came from being used by the gods and by Minos, she lost her ability to sustain a relationship with her daughters, or with anyone. Phaedra, by the time she becomes a wife let alone a mother, has lost any love or even respect for her husband; with motherhood she also has lost the relative freedom of her role as an active queen taking part in running Athens, a “job” in which she found her only consolation for the emptiness of her marriage. So she feels trapped as well as feeling all the loneliness and grief of her life in Athens. This is a different kind of trauma, of powerlessness... not much love to give.


Posted May. 16, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
ashleighp

Join Date: 09/15/20

Posts: 33

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

I am going to veer slightly off from the exact question because I think this is a good place to mention that I was absolutely here for the representation of postpartum depression. Even though it is not explicitly stated this is what Phaedra was going through it perfectly and almost beautifully described the all too real feelings women sometimes experience post childbirth. And I guarantee women experienced it throughout the ages but it has been and still is so stigmatized. Good on Jennifer Saint for adding this to the novel because we need more exposure to liberate women who suffer from this issue silently today.


Posted May. 17, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
peggyt

Join Date: 08/10/17

Posts: 215

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Pasiphae was a good and loving mother until she lost her sanity when she was compelled to mate with a bull then gave birth to a monster and what ensued from there. Ariadne was a good and loving mother to her very many children. It was very obvious in the story that Phaedra suffered from post partum depression and was unable to bond with her sons.


Posted May. 17, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
acstrine

Join Date: 02/06/17

Posts: 438

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Ariadne definitely benefitted from the example of her mother, who was very involved in her life prior to the birth of the minotaur. While the rest of Crete seemed disgusted by him, Pasiphae devoted herself to nurturing him- as he was another innocent victim of the gods. Phaedra was too young to have strong, positive memories of her mother before Minos banished her son to the labyrinth. She was also not interested in bonding with her brother.

I think the fact that Ariadne had a choice made a difference in some ways. She chose not to go through with the marriage arranged by her father by betraying not only her brother, but the entire kingdom. Phaedra was not given a choice. She lost her mother, her sister, and then her home. She must have been very lonely, and at 12, in desperate need of continued guidance and mentoring from someone she trusted and loved. While marrying Theseus may have seemed appealing at first- -he was so handsome after all; it didn't take long to discover that he was a liar, a cheater, a rapist, and a fraud. Every man Phaedra had known had let her down or abandoned her somehow. Her resentment may have passed on to her children who she assumed would be more influenced by their father. I wonder if Phaedra would have responded differently if she had a daughter... Although I agree with ashleigh, Phaedra obviously suffered from post partum depression. The one thing she found that brought her joy, running Athens, would take a backseat to raising mini Theseuses.

I do think that Ariadne was also uplifted by the women- -maenads- -who lived with her on the island. While she never felt comfortable joining them, Ariadne was well aware of the strength they possessed in terms of not remaining quiet or subservient to men. She drew from that in order to be the best version of herself.


Posted May. 19, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
ScribblingScribe

Join Date: 02/29/16

Posts: 189

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Pasiphae was a lovely, engaging mother until she was violated by the bull--an act that would destroy anyone. But even then, she cared for the minotaur and nursed him with love. But it broke her and drove her from her children mentally.

Ariadne was also a loving mother. She cared for her children on an island paradise, reveling in their presence and the peace she had found. In the end, she gave everything to offer them lives free from turmoil.

Phaedra, on the other hand, was too selfish to care for another, especially babies she viewed as chains. They trapped her with Theseus and cost her what precious freedom she had attained by taking over at the court. She was far too self-involved to take to motherhood and her children paid the price.

The Maenads represented a mother's grief--something that is never ending and acute. It dictated their every move.


Posted May. 19, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
beverlyj

Join Date: 12/22/11

Posts: 154

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Ariadne enjoys motherhood and seems determined to ensure that her childhood have a loving upbring. Also, I think it helped that Dionysus is a more caring father.

Phaedra sees her husband for his deceitful self and has no love for her children as she is too busy thinking about herself and the wrongs against. She was ambitious to be involved in the politics in Athens so no time to be nuturing.

Pasiphae was an engaging mother until she was caught up in a cruel revenge and was broken by it.


Posted May. 31, 2021 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
BuffaloGirl

Join Date: 01/13/18

Posts: 209

RE: Discuss the different experiences of...

Pasiphae was a loving and good mother until she was used by Minos and Poseidon in their feud. Even after the birth of Asterion, she was a nurturing and loving mother to him. But his birth drove her mad.

Ariadne was a good and loving mother because she had the example of Pasiphae until she was violated.

Phaedra was cold and distant, but it was to be expected since she did receive any mothering from Pasiphae, who was incapable for most of Phaedra's childhood.


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