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Z: A Novel of Zelda Fitzgerald
A novel that is as heartbreaking as it is mesmerizing.
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Scott + Ernest?

Created: 04/03/13

Replies: 9

Posted Apr. 03, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
Wendy

Join Date: 07/17/11

Posts: 8

Scott + Ernest?

Did you find the emphasis on Scott's "love" for Hemingway a bit over the top? Was there more than just mutual admiration for the other's talent going on, as Zelda suspected?


Posted Apr. 03, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
lisag

Join Date: 01/12/12

Posts: 298

Expert

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I asked myself this same question. EH was a great writer at the beginning of his career, and FSF wanted to be noted as the person who advanced his career. But was this to make him (FSF) look like he had a talent for finding literary prodigies or was there more to it? His zeal to promote Hemingway did seem way over the top. Giving another writer a helping hand is one thing but FSF went above and beyond that.


Posted Apr. 03, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
Wendy

Join Date: 07/17/11

Posts: 8

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I was rather surprised by the homosexual overtones that Fowler clearly conveyed. I had not heard that particular "rumor" and would love to know if there was any basis for it in the research.


Posted Apr. 05, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
lisag

Join Date: 01/12/12

Posts: 298

Expert

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I don't know how much credence to give it, but I found interesting bits about Ernest and Scott here: http://philosopedia.org/index.php/F._Scott_Fitzgerald

Here's one quote:

"Of Hemingway, Fitzgerald had once written, “I really loved him, but of course it wore out like a love affair. The fairies have spoiled all that,” implying that their friendship had stopped because of such gossip."

How true this is I have no idea.


Posted Apr. 06, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
lorris

Join Date: 09/06/12

Posts: 6

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I do believe that the relationship had homoerotic undertones. But then again, I believe a lot of relationships have homoerotic undertones that go unacknowledged because our society discourages expressions of love (sexual or non-sexual) between same-sex pairings, particularly if you are male, and super-particularly is you are widely considered a manly man. I think Hem cared for no one but himself and I have no trouble believing that he would trifle with whoever happened to be in his oribt, especially the vulnerable (and there's no dount that Scott was vulnerable). I don't much care if the physical part of the relationship was consummated.


Posted Apr. 10, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
carmen s

Join Date: 04/27/11

Posts: 33

RE: Scott + Ernest?

Not sure about the sexual undertones between them. I think Scott wanted to mentor him, then it became a competition, even with Hemmingway trying to seduce Zelda to prove himself the better man.


Posted Apr. 10, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
MarieA

Join Date: 10/12/11

Posts: 42

RE: Scott + Ernest?

Scott and Ernest were competitors--each writer great in his own way.


Posted Apr. 10, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
kathleenw

Join Date: 04/16/12

Posts: 15

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I had not heard of the sexual possibility at all, but who knows. Homosexuality certainly wasn't talked about much in those times. The competition between the two writers was certainly intense. I loved Fowler's "explanation of the tension. Zelda's rebuff of Hemingway and her strong support of her husband were believable in my mind.


Posted Apr. 11, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
sandrah

Join Date: 07/18/11

Posts: 44

RE: Scott + Ernest?

Both in their own ways were needy individuals and both used others. Scott needed to be liked and admired and wanted desperately to belong. Hemingway's neediness came through in his macho personality. He was a physical man who exploited that part of himself both in life and in his writing. Both female sexual conquests and admiring male "friends"--whom he often exploited or later turned on--we're needed to bolster his macho ego.


"The reader lives a 1000 lives before he dies. The [person] who never reads lives only one."
George R.R. Martin.
Posted Apr. 28, 2013 Go to Top | Bottom | link | alert
Sharlene

Join Date: 04/10/13

Posts: 30

RE: Scott + Ernest?

I had heard the rumor before, particularly regarding Hemingway. Other writers have made the implication of Hemingway's effort to appear macho when he may, in fact, have questioned his own masculinity. I think Scott had a great need to be liked and Hemingway was a user from the beginning. He turned on others as he eventually turned on Scott.


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